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Campus no place for firearms

Published: Tuesday, March 2, 2010

Updated: Tuesday, March 30, 2010 00:03

This week the U.S. Supreme Court heard arguments for a case on gun control.

The city of Chicago's handgun ban is being reviewed so the court can decide if it violates the Second Amendment rights of Americans. The case is receiving a lot of attention because experts think it will set the tone for future disagreements on gun control.

Currently, the laws in Florida make bringing a firearm on a college campus a third-degree felony.

We hope that even if the state law changes as a result of the Supreme Court decision in this case, that UCF upholds a ban on students bringing firearms on campus.

Schools are not the place for guns. Academic institutions are meant to educate and influence students.

They provide an arena for healthy debates on social and political issues. The presence of guns on campus could deter students from expressing their opinions.

Several thousand students gather at UCF for classes, making it an easy target for violence. Sporting events and concerts that draw large crowds don't allow guests to carry guns for the same reason.

We don't agree with the argument that students would be safer if they were carrying weapons, either.  UCF Police already work hard to ensure the safety of students on campus.

Putting more guns on campus would likely increase the amount of crime. If this happens UCF will have to spend more money staffing the campus with extra police.

Because gun control is a popular topic, National Public Radio allowed guests to call in this week to offer their opinions. Many callers referenced the shootings at Virginia Tech saying there would have been less victims if students were allowed to carry guns on campus.

We do not think it is safe to assume anyone will act a certain way during an unexpected and horrific event.

People can act quickly and irrationally while under extreme stress. If students were carrying weapons during an attack on campus and did not react calmly, they could easily make a bad situation worse.

Despite the Supreme Court's ruling this week, we support the ban on firearms on university property.

Carrying a gun is viewed as a right but attending college is a privilege. A privilege that is worth the sacrifice of leaving your gun at home during classes. 

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33 comments

WOW, really M.G.
Sat Oct 9 2010 11:17
honestly im suprised this can even be considered a debate... EVER!

You, the government, or a college have no RIGHT to tell me when or where i can protect my life.

The fate of myself and my children is completly up to us as individuals.

If you are comforatable with the image of your daughter, son, brother, or sister cowering in a corner waiting to be executed by some crazy who is on a spree fine.

id rather know that my son had a fighting CHANCE, and defended himself and his fellow man.

not only does this article lack research, IT HAS NO COMMON SENCE!

on a calmer note, i will continue to carry my gun everywhere i can. My wife often asks if im carrying when she feels unsafe (she forgets to carry hers some times). And when i say yes i sigh of relief followed by "good" is the only approval i need.

if you want to be helpless in a situation where help is not close enough to make a difference then have fun being a victim

sure police respoce time is only about 2 minutes.. on a great day

but when seconds count and police are minutes away... your on your own and dead if you can defend yourself

quick break down on the time, pulling out gun 2 seconds, fireing a full magazine between 16 and 30 rnds. maybe 20seconds, reloading 5 seconds........... and repeat ... so in 27 seconds he is on his second magazine and police are still no where in site.... at 47 seconds 2 magazines are now empty and he is realoading again

now you feel safe ? you think the police will be there to protect you? Are you CRAZY!

im sorry the police dont have magic teleporation powers. they are not super heros, and will not always be there.
in the end the only person you can depend on in a life or death situation is yourself, thats as factual as it gets.

Defender
Mon Jul 12 2010 13:41
By the way, I agree with your publication's editorial stance on decriminalizing marijuana and smoking paraphernalia. The benefits of medical marijuana -- even self-prescribed -- are too important to ALLOW the government to deny them.
The love of gun rights and other freedoms transcends labels such as conservative or Republican. To be truly free, you have to care about THE OTHER GUY'S liberty as much as your own.
You wish to buy marijuana pipes at the tobacco shop or along with your Girl Scout cookies. People used to be able to buy guns for cash, no questions or ID, at the hardware store like any other tool. And crime was much lower then.
Embrace freedom. ALL kinds.
Defender
Mon Jul 12 2010 13:29
Anyone know about the murder at Virginia Tech a few years after Seung-hui Cho executed 30 fellow students witout opposition? An obsessed admirer took a kitchen knife from a student cafe and near-decapitated the object of his affection, a Chinese female exchange student, as horrified HELPLESS onlookers watched.
Better to have it and not need it than need it and not have it.
Hey , why don't you require people to register to post comments? Maybe because you have a mechanism in place to delete obscene or threatening comments? Think about it. There are serious legal sanctions for misuse of a gun or any other weapon, including cordless drills and hammers. A tool is a tool. Prior restraint and the presumption of guilt on the part of potential gun buyers and carriers is unconstitutional, unAmerican and counterproductive.
Anonymous
Mon Apr 26 2010 10:08
This article is a joke! What faulty logic leads you to these conclusions? What basis do you have for any of these accusations you make, essentially labeling concealed carriers as irrational, violent, irresponsible citizens. Shame on you!
Anonymous
Mon Apr 5 2010 15:27
Being an instructor at UCF I feel that as a faculty member I should be allowed to conceal carry (with the proper permit of course) to my place of employment for self defense.
Ashley Carnifax, Online News Editor
Sat Mar 27 2010 16:49
Hello readers,

I have no idea what happened to the comments. No one has been on the admin system today, and I assure you we only delete comments if they are threatening, against the law, etc. Nothing would have been deleted from this page.

I will check on this immediately and figure out what the issue is.

Thanks for bringing it to my attention.

Ashley Carnifax
Online News Editor

Anonymous
Sat Mar 27 2010 16:25
but seriously, was there a computer glitch or did the 19 other rational comments that happened to be for concealed carry just disappear?
Anonymous
Sat Mar 27 2010 16:03
hooray for censoring comments!
Anonymous
Sat Mar 13 2010 18:18
Forgive my last comment, the "Jose Jose" sentence was added in an afterthought. I did not intend for it to read that the UCF police will not be able to stop him personally. I meant the supposed lunatic who had "attacked" our campus.
Anonymous
Sat Mar 13 2010 13:55
"Guns are safe"

Fantastic evidence you have there. So because one meat-headed LEO shot himself in a classroom while improperly handling a firearm, we're all going to shoot ourselves in class? Newsflash: Guns don't just fire randomly. The trigger needs to be pulled. Holsters have trigger guards that keep the trigger from being pulled while the weapon is concealed. I carry my gun on me everywhere I go (aside from school, and other places the State of Florida has deemed illegal, such as professional sporting events). More people than your left-winged psyche would care to know carry guns around you on a daily basis. When was the last time one just went off?

On that note, what makes a classroom so much different from Publix, my car, or my office? Do classrooms magically make guns fire without provocation? I am trained how to safely handle a firearm. I am over 21 years of age, the required age by the state of Florida to purchase a handgun, and carry a weapon concealed by permit. I've gone through FBI background checks, I've been fingerprinted, taken written tests, shown proficiency in handling a firearm, and have been granted the right to carry a concealed weapon by the state of Florida. What makes a college campus so much different any other place you go on a daily basis? The only thing I can think of is that it's got a big target on it's back. Criminals don't care about laws, they bring weapons anyways. Look at our to-be star lineman, Jose Jose. Caught with a concealed weapon at 18 years old. Do you really think the campus police will be there in time when some crazed gunman starts firing to stop him in his tracks? No. Precious minutes will be wasted while they stroll over to their cars and leisurely drive on over. People WILL die. Lots of them, depending on how distrubed that individual is. The UCF police department's response time is.....welll....less than outstanding.

Are people who carry guns paranoid? No. I bet if you had a conversation with me off campus you would never know that I'm a "gun toting Republican" and that I more than likely have a subcompact firearm tucked inside my waistband in a holster. It's legal, and I do it. I know that the police will not be able to protect me in a split second self defense situation. Did you know that most LEO (law enforcement officers) are pro-concealed weapons permits? They want the general public to arm themselves, because they know that they cannot always be there. Therefore, I carry for the safety of myself, my girlfriend, and my family. I will NEVER draw my weapon to level an argument. I will never even mention that I have a weapon in my possession. But I was to be attacked with deadly force, then I will defend myself as the law says I can.

guns are safe.. watch the video
Fri Mar 12 2010 07:57
"i'm the only one in this room professional enough to carry this [gun]"

www.youtube.com/watch?v=am-Qdx6vky0

Accidents happen. This is why we don't want guns in our classrooms.

Anonymous
Thu Mar 11 2010 21:12
"If you allowed the presence of guns in a college campus wouldn't the likelihood of gun violence increase? Does anybody in this school honestly feel so unsafe walking to class that they need to have a gun on them?"

All the empirical evidence indicates that the opposite is true. When responsible citizens are lawfully allowed to be armed, violence typically decreases. It is the possession of weapons by the criminally irresponsible, especially in the presence of an unarmed general populace, that that increases violence. And that is what the banning of concealed carry on campuses creates. The ban only stops the responsible people who are not a threat to the safety of the campus community. There is no actual mechanism to prevent a person who intends to violate the ban from doing so. So all the ban does is disarm those who would carry a weapon responsibly while allowing the irresponsible to do as they please.

In the early 1980s, few states allowed citizens to carry concealed firearms legally, and most of those had highly restrictive requirements for obtaining a license to do so. Today, all but two states allow concealed carry, and the overwhelming majority are "shall issue", meaning that any person who is not prohibited from purchasing a handgun can apply and get a license. Two states currently require no license at all, and at least three more currently have legislation pending to drop the license requirement.

Given all that, our violence statistics should have gone up over that same period of time if your premise was correct. Instead, we've seen a remarkably steady DECLINE in violent crime, gun crime, and even gun accidents in the same period. So all the fears about increased violence, increased crime, and even accidental injuries do not hold up to factual scrutiny. Carrying a gun is a big responsibility, and generally responsible people who decide to do so recognize this. So when they decide to start carrying, they tend to take it seriously and the numbers show that they are involved in less violence, less crime, and fewer accidents than virtually any other segment of the population.

Anonymous
Thu Mar 11 2010 20:52
"I'm sure many students never heard about this, but when UCF still played at the Citrus Bowl, UCF police officer Mario Jenkins was shot and killed by another cop when Jenkins pulled out his gun while undercover. Maybe "libertarian gun owner" should have considered that both of them were certified in the proper operation of a gun."

A couple of problems here. First, if you actually do read the incident, you'll see that shooting the other officer was justified, because the first officer was threatening to shoot people for the heinous crime of....underage drinking. He was, for all intents and purposes, involved in a criminal assault with a firearm, even though he was working undercover. In that situation, he should have been shot. Second, this was not an accidental shooting. The officer who shot Jenkins saw a criminal act with a handgun, and acted appropriately. He might not have shot Jenkins had he known that he was an undercover officer, but Jenkins was acting criminally, and nothing the officer did who shot him was wrong.

This leads to the other problem here - these officers were certified with firearms, as you said. But do people really understand what that means? It does NOT mean "trained" or even competent. Certification is a process to allow police departments to avoid civil liability, not to ensure that officers are properly trained with firearms. Most police and military personnel are NOT well trained in the safe use of firearms, they are MINIMALLY trained, if at all. Certification involves no actual training at all. It only requires a skills test (and a pretty pathetic one at that), so that if an officer does shoot someone when they shouldn't have, the department can come back and say "well, he passed qualification, so it's not our fault". Most police officers are no more knowledgeable about firearms than the average citizen, and many even less so. As a firearms trainer who served both in the US Army and as a police officer, I know. In fact, the worst students to deal with are current/former cops and soldiers, because they all think that the very minimalist training they get makes them experts, when in fact they are usually some of the most irresponsible people I've seen with a firearm. I would feel much safer in a room full of armed undergraduates who had taken a couple NRA firearms courses than I would with a room full of armed cops and soldiers, as far as firearms safety goes.

Just Asking
Thu Mar 11 2010 09:45
If you allowed the presence of guns in a college campus wouldn't the likelihood of gun violence increase? Does anybody in this school honestly feel so unsafe walking to class that they need to have a gun on them?

I know people here are saying it's an issue of their freedom but there are serious consequences when it comes to guns. All it takes is a few shots fired by either one nut or irresponsible person to end someone's life.

Anonymous
Thu Mar 11 2010 03:13
Substantial evidence, now theres a phrase, for a supreme court that functions for a specific financial bracket, a bracket of convenience, two formulas for action by United States Authorities, assault an innocent group, cause their financial status to fall below the Supreme Courts 'preferred client' list, get militant groups to service the cause of the Authorities and call the victims 'Disturbers of the Peace', when people like those that have fallen outside the Supreme Courts 'Preferred List' include WTC victims families, and the victims of extremist terrorist groups that literally walk around our neighborhoods and befriend already screwed up, drug saturated individuals with promises of glory and Monarchship, to generate scenes like those from movies and make those who are being wooed by the extremists feel truly in the spotlight, fussed over and in front of the camera, regardless of their income. From my perspective, local authorities and us government has not been demonized, they are intentionally behaving demonically for the entertainment of their financial suppliers, as well as US broadcasting regulators.
Anonymous
Wed Mar 10 2010 23:15
This is the most poorly researched and written piece of tripe I've seen in a long time. Aside from regurgitating the same old left-wing lies of the Brady Bunch, it provides no actual information. It is because schools educate that guns should be allowed - people should learn how to handle themselves in a debate where others may have firearms, because that's the other 99% of the world (and I don't just mean here in the good ol' U. S. of A. - I have over 20 years in the U.S. Army and Army Reserve and about half of that is on active duty including combat). If you feel free to threaten and abuse because you're sure your opponent is unarmed, then your irrational (and stupid). And of course, it should be allowed because it's a right of the people, and not the place of a "business" or "entity" to preclude it, any more than it would be acceptable for a school (or any business) to disallow entry based on gender, religion, or ethnicity. In a civilized country, everyone would have guns in their homes and would carry guns wherever they liked, because people would be civil. It's because of the irrational cowardice of the unknowing that guns are looked upon as evil, when it's the ignorance of those who undermine our rights that is the true evil.
Anonymous
Wed Mar 10 2010 15:05
ASK THE VICTIMS OF THE VIRGINIA TECH MASSACRE IF THEY WISH SOMEONE HAD A WEAPON TO TAKE OUT THE CRAZED PSYCHO ON THEIR CAMPUS.
Joe
Sun Mar 7 2010 16:14
Please, when commenting in a forum for a collegiate newspaper, remember to make an effort to utilize proper spelling/grammar/punctuation. This is not textsfromlastnight, facebook, or twitter. We are all trying to involve our fellow students in a thoughtful debate about the topic of gun control. If you wish for your comments to be taken seriously by others you should at least make the effort.

With that said, I’m sure one of the other readers will find errors in my own post. So, allow me to repeat myself- please make an *effort*. There are no grammar police here, but there should be some amount of self-respect. The Future took the time to write a clear and well-written "Stance." Even if you disagree, you can do so without making this look like 4chan.

P.S. The UCF Police Department should not be realistically counted upon in any situation besides traffic violation enforcements. Simply pull up their statistics for "crimes reported/arrests made" to verify.

Adam C.
Thu Mar 4 2010 21:16
I wonder if the author of this article knows about the University of Utah. They have allowed concealed carry there for quite some time and they have had no incidents. If I have my concealed weapon on my person than NO ONE is going to know about it unless I need to use it to defend my life. No other students are going to be sweating bullets (excuse the pun) because someone MIGHT have a gun in the classroom. 3.5% of the population in Citrus County have concealed carry permits but does anyone panic when they are in a room with more than 30 people? Because, the statistics say that someone in that room has a concealed weapon on them.

About Mario Jenkins, I was there. The reason he was shot is because he was in plain clothes with his gun out and the responding officer could not see his badge and Officer Jenkins did not ID himself. It has nothing to do with either officer understanding how a firearm works.

By the way, are any CRIMINALS going to obey the law that says they can't bring a gun to campus? No, they're not because they don't care about what the law says. However, myself as a law abiding citizen I follow the law and I want to able to defend myself while I'm at class and on the walk to my car at 9:00pm when I'm leaving class.

Also, just because I am a student, does not mean I am going to pull out a gun if someone has opinions different than mine and you have NO evidence to support that theory. If the state of Florida says I can carry my firearm in public, why shouldn't I be allowed to carry it in class? I take it to work, the grocery store, church(if I attended), Best Buy, etc and you have no idea its there. What makes the classroom different from the grocery store?

My main question: Do you have ANY evidence that supports the theory that students will use concealed weapons in an irrational manner? Or are you just spewing crap because you don't like the idea?

Anonymous
Thu Mar 4 2010 16:29
yes thats right, we wouldnt want to be able to stop killers who dont obay laws from getting a high body count






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